East Harlem Music

[Jose]

Salsa and Latin music are all the rage around the world, London, Japan and Europe loves the music. Some of the musicians are from East Harlem, Johnny Colon and Marc Anthony for example. We may even get a Salsa Museum on East 111th Street and Third Avenue. What is your favorite music, musician, band or song?

[marthadel]

Jose, do you remember back in the 70's there was a guy who had a band Tony Rojas and the TNT band. He made a few hits. He use to sing in the store front clubs in Harlem. What ever became of him? Is he still stinging or did he finally settle down?

[Jose]

marthadel,

I am not familiar with Tony Rojas or his music.
I must confess, I grew up listening to Rock and Roll.
I now listen to Salsa, but still my main music is Rock/Pop.

Can you tell me more about Tony and what type of music he played?

[marthadel]

I also grew up on Rock N Roll. I was introduced to Tony Rojas by Vinny who owed the pet shop on 116th St. I believe it's now called Ideal Pet Shop. Vinny was killed in the 80's. He took me to my first latin club in Harlem. That is where I met Tony Rojas and TNT band.

I don't remember any of the music he played but I know he was well known in the neighborhood of 2nd Ave and 123 street.

If anyon remembers the TNT Band and knows what became of them let us know.

[Jose]

marthadel,
Was Vinny an Italian man with a pony tail? If so, then I remember him. The pet shop was renamed and is now closed forever. We do have another pet store in El Barrio between 107-109. I forget which of the streets its on. It's a big name brand store.

Well, I just ask my daughter and she doesn't wish to talk this early in the morning. Why are some women so moody in the morning? She's all of 17 and just snapped at me. Geeez.

See ya

[marthadel]

Hi Jose!

Vinny's pet store was on 116th street. Vinny was a big party person. He had a few kids from the neighborhood work in the pet shop. Before relocating to 116th St. the pet store was located around 123 St and 2nd Ave. I left Harlem in 1974 and that was the last I saw of Vinny. A few years later I was told someone shot him when he was entering the City Bank on the corner. I was in NYC last year I think the pet store is closed now. Vinny was very well known in the neighborhood.

Do you remember in those days a lot of the guys use to fly pigeons on the roof tops. I have a cousin in Brooklyn that has been breeding pigeons for many years. It's a good pass time I gues for those that don't want to get into the internet?

[Jose]

Yes,
When I was younger (years and years ago), I remember guys flying pigeons from their roofs. I believe the game was to steel pigeons from the other pigeon guys. The two steams of pigeons would fly together, birds got confused and went to the wrong home.

Before the internet, I guess that was the best a guy could do (besides being all over girls).

I also remember house weddings. One of my cousins got married in our apartment (60's) in Jefferson Houses. It was so typically 60s, cake with a big ring on it (hey maybe it was an engagement party) and lots of food and drink. We kids were bored, but the adults looked like they really had a good time.

[marthadel]

I remember those house parties very well. I had my wedding in our apartment in the Wagner projects. It was in August with no AC You can imagine all those people in an apartment on a hot summer day. I remember also my friends in school talking about someone have a dance in their apartment. I think they called it going to a Set or something like that. I never went to any of those dances since I wasnt allowed to go out but, I remember everone talking about it the next day.

Those were the days before computers. How did we ever survive without computers?

[Jose]

I don't know how we survived before the advent of computers. I got into computing in 1984-85. I got online soon after that. Could you believe that I got online (Compuserve) at the amazing speed of 300 buad! Compuserve was a text based system then, so it went pretty fast. It cost $6.00 an hour. One month I received a $70.00 bill For a little over 11 hours of online time.
Those were the days! But I tell you, not many people were online then, and my family couldn't figure out what was so fasinating about computers. Let alone being online.

I get the last laugh, as I've seen each and every one of them getting online within the last 18 months. Guess who they ask when they need to troubleshoot their problems. Me. Ha, ha.

[muaddib]

Apartment Weddings? How retro! Hope the idea takes off. It is better than paying thousands for the rental of a large hall. How couples can spend so much in their very first expenditure if beyond me. I just hope any future wife of mine agrees. You never know the female sex. They love expensive fantasy weddings.

[marthadel]

I remember those house part's so ell. I hated them. Looking back to those years. Those were the stone age years. Today everything is so different and expensive. We now have Party stores to catere to all our party needs. And, the party's are no longer held in a small apartment. All the baby boomers got hipped and now rent a hall or hotel.

Remember the when a Puerto Rican in the neighborhood would have a party for one of their kids and the kids party winded up being more for the adults. The adults where the ones getting drunk from all the bear and rum they were serving. And the poor kids would only get a birthday cake. After the happy birthday singing was over they would put the kids to bed and continue partying like it was their birthday. You didn't see any clowns or games for the kids at the party only salsa music playing and the adults looking forward to meeting and dancing with the latinas at the party.

Crazy!!!!!!!!!!!

[Diana]

Hi Jose,

Long time no speak. Just a little infor on the TNT Band. Their most popular song was Boogaloo Blues. It went something like this...I remember the time when I felt the world was mine...(chorus - LSD gotta hold on me...)

Does anyone remember this song?

As I had said before Jose I slept, ate, and was totally immersed in music from Latin to Soul, and Doowop and some rock and roll.


By the way the pet store you refer to on 109ths street is Petland.


I welcome more discussion on old latin songs. Does anyone remember the Swing Sextette and Joey Pastrana?

[Richie_Rumbero]

Both the New Swing Sextet and Joey Pastrana are still alive and kicking. Pastrana lives in Queens and The New Swing Sextet still play on occassion, albeit with several new members from the original group.

If I'm not mistaken I believe "BOOGALOO BLUES" was recorded by Johnny Colón, who is also alive and kicking and contineus to run the Johnny Colón East Harlem Music School. A school which, might I add, spawned the talents of Tito Nieves and, East Harlem's own, Marc Anthony among others.

One of the last living legends STILL living in El Barrio, Joe Cuba will be performing with his sextet this Saturday, June 23, 2001.

From 12:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m., "The Puerto Rican Cultural Village" will present shows and workshops at the Riverside Church, 490 Riverside Drive (between 120th and 122nd Streets) in Manhattan. Featuring a clave percussion workshop lead by Jose Rivera (Bomba Y Plena Cafe); Bomba/Plena Dance Workshop with Los Amigos De La Plena lead by Jose Rivera; Applause Dance Group lead by Taina Traverso; The Myths and Mysteries of Taino Indians with Master storyteller Bobby Gonzalez; and The Joe Cuba Sextet.

For more information, visit www.theriversidechurchny.org

Richie

[marthadel]

Im glad to hear someone remembers the TNT Band, and Vinnie's Pet Shop from East Harlem. The petshop is Pet Land now. Vinnie was killed. I use to hang out with Vinny in the early 70's. I moved to Florida in 1976. He had gave alot of the neighborhood kids in school jobs during the summer. Was sad to hear he was killed.

As for the TNT Band. When I left for Florida I found out he settle down and wasn't singing with the group any more. I think he should have keep his career as a singer. Looks like he joined the one-time wonder club.

It's wonderfull to remember those days when we were growing up.

[Charles]

The TNT Band (Tito Ramos & Tony Rojas) were one of the "Boogaloo/Latin Soul"-era bands that recorded on Cotique Records from about 1968-1970.

Some of their biggest hits were: "Mr. Slick," "Borinquen Bella," Sabre Olvidar," and, perhaps their most popular, "The Meditation."

"The Meditation" could've been considered an earlier form of "sampling"--LOL!!!!! It borrowed, kinda liberally, from two of the biggest "Soul Music" hits of the day, Archie Bell & The Drells' "Tighten Up" and James Brown's "Cold Sweat." The latter had the "give the drummer some" solo lifted by the TNT Band's timbale player during the "Drum Call."

I think the young lady who believed that "Boogaloo Blues" was recorded by them may have gotten mixed up, as Tito Ramos (I believe) was the lead singer on that Johnny Colon track, as he also sang lead on "Judy, Part 2" from that same album ("Boogaloo Blues."

This was my favorite era of Salsa Music (1967-1975), and I'd be glad to talk to anyone about it on this board!!!!

Charles

[Diana]

Hi Charles,

Thanks for correcting my mistake. You are SO RIGHT about who sang Boogaloo Blues. TNT did Meditation. (God, I must be slipping - me a Barrio lady that all I did was listen to music...I'll just say that this little old brain has lost some cells.)

Anyhow, glad to hear that other folks like the same music I did and still do. ( I prefer it to today's music).

I remember when Willie Colon rehearsed at our CYO (in St. Cecilia's). The song he played was Jazzy. Remember that album? Do you remember Our Lady Queen of Angels dances? and the great bands that played there...Palmieri, Barreto, etc.
or the Jazzmobile?

And let's not forget the BLOCK PARTIES... I still think 111th St. between Mad. & Park had the best ones. (but, of course I would say that....that was my block.)

Does anyone remember the social groups that would always throw dances? I remember the Latin Ladies but the others I've forgotten (there goes those lost cells again.)

Looking forward to the discussion...I truly loved those times.

[Diana]

Marthadel,

How can you consider house parties part of the stone age years?
AAGH, I'm not that old!!!!! Actually, I prefer a good old house party to what people call dance clubs today. (people don't dance..too busy profiling). Most old timers that I know (myself included) are always about the dancing, the music, the fun and friends.

[Jose]

Boy I feel younger already. All us 70's kids had was disco!! But I must admit, you 'old timers'
had it good too, especially the music and friends part. (I was born in 55). Tell me more about what went on at these house parties. The ones my mother had were mostly held for weddings and engagement parties.

[Charles]

(Diana wrote: Anyhow, glad to hear that other folks like the same music I did and still do. [ I prefer it to today's music]. I remember when Willie Colon rehearsed at our CYO [in St. Cecilia's]. The song he played was Jazzy. Remember that album? Do you remember Our Lady Queen of Angels dances? and the great bands that played there...Palmieri, Barreto, etc. or the Jazzmobile?)


Hey, Diana!:

I, too, still play the Salsa of that day--A LOT!!!

The first album--of any genre (soul, pop, Latin, etc)--I ever purchased with my own money was Willie Colon's "El Malo," which led off with "Jazzy." I loved that album, and to this day I still play it on CD. I don't think the album/CD had a weak cut. Besides the aforementioned cut and the title tune, there was "Willie Baby," "Borinquen," "Willie Whopper," "Skinny Papa," "Chonqui," and "Quimbombo."

Now I have a little confession to make...at the time I began listening to Latin Music, I was 12! (1967--so yeah Jose, I'm the same age as you, bro--LOL!!!) Every night I used to listen to Dick "Ricardo" Sugar's show on WHBI-FM (105.9) and used to call in to make requests and dedications! So I used to be envious of people such as yourself who could go to the Bronx Music Palace, the La Calesa Club/"The Psycho Room," and the "3 & 1 Club." I was FAR too young to get into those places--LOL!!! I also used ot have an earphone to my transistor for Symphony Sid's show on WEVD-AM (1330) and WEVD-FM (97.9) (show was on simultaneously both stations)

So I had to get my Salsa where I could. The very first time I experienced it live was during the Summer of 1968, when Tony Lawrence and the City of New York (with help from actor Robert Hooks) put on the weekly "Harlem Cultural Festival" in Mt. Morris (now Marcus Garvey) Park. One week, the festival had Ray Barretto, Eddie Palmieri, and Tito Puente. I had to beg my older sister to take me (she was 18 at the time), 'cause moms wouldn't let me trek down there by myself.

One day soon I’ll post details about that show (I remember it vividly!)

Charles

[Richie_Rumbero]

WASHINGTON SQUARE MUSIC FESTIVAL - SALSA CONCERT -Free, outdoors, in Washington Square Park, Greenwich Village, Manhattan. July 31st at 8:00PM.

Johnny Colon & His Orchestra. The dancing surface is cement, and there are benches and grass around the park. The concert is held at the southeast quadrant of the park, near Washington Square South (West 4th Street) and LaGuardia Place, just south of the fountain, near the statue of Garibaldi. Seating is on a first-come first-serve basis. In case of rain, the concert will be held in New York University's Frederick Loewe Theater, 35 West 4th Street (probably with no place for dancing). For more information, call 212-625-7123

[Jibaro]

Originally posted by Diana Lopez
Hi Jose,

Long time no speak. Just a little infor on the TNT Band. Their most popular song was Boogaloo Blues. It went something like this...I remember the time when I felt the world was mine...(chorus - LSD gotta hold on me...)

Does anyone remember this song?

As I had said before Jose I slept, ate, and was totally immersed in music from Latin to Soul, and Doowop and some rock and roll.


By the way the pet store you refer to on 109ths street is Petland.


I welcome more discussion on old latin songs. Does anyone remember the Swing Sextette and Joey Pastrana?

I do remeber The TNT Band. I do not, however, remeber their hits even when looking at the Titles " Borinqen Bella,"
" Mi Mulatta," and "Descarga TNT." I do recall and can veriy this by ownership that Johnny Colon recorded Boogaloo Blues.

[Jibaro]

Originally posted by marthadel
I remember those house parties very well. I had my wedding in our apartment in the Wagner projects. It was in August with no AC You can imagine all those people in an apartment on a hot summer day. I remember also my friends in school talking about someone have a dance in their apartment. I think they called it going to a Set or something like that. I never went to any of those dances since I wasnt allowed to go out but, I remember everone talking about it the next day.

Those were the days before computers. How did we ever survive without computers? Not sure why the house paries were called "Sets," but it may have been to distinguish them from a "House party" that were more family oriented - tios, tias, cousins, abuela, mom and pop. Sets were also "Thrown" (yet another term) in apartments that house parties were given with the distiction or a virtual absence of aforementioned family members.

If someone helps me, I still have some invitations to sets and Social Club "Dances" that I can share by uploading some of them to this board.

[Jibaro]

Originally posted by marthadel
I remember those house parties very well. I had my wedding in our apartment in the Wagner projects. It was in August with no AC You can imagine all those people in an apartment on a hot summer day. I remember also my friends in school talking about someone have a dance in their apartment. I think they called it going to a Set or something like that. I never went to any of those dances since I wasnt allowed to go out but, I remember everone talking about it the next day.

Those were the days before computers. How did we ever survive without computers? Not sure why the house paries were called "Sets," but it may have been to distinguish them from a "House party" that were more family oriented - tios, tias, cousins, abuela, mom and pop, etc. Sets were also "Thrown" (yet another term) in apartments that house parties were given with the distinction or a virtual absence of aforementioned family members.

If someone helps me, I still have some invitations to sets and Social Club "Dances" that I can share by uploading some of them to this board.

[Jibaro]

Originally posted by marthadel
I remember those house parties very well. I had my wedding in our apartment in the Wagner projects. It was in August with no AC You can imagine all those people in an apartment on a hot summer day. I remember also my friends in school talking about someone have a dance in their apartment. I think they called it going to a Set or something like that. I never went to any of those dances since I wasnt allowed to go out but, I remember everone talking about it the next day.

Those were the days before computers. How did we ever survive without computers? Not sure why the house paries were called "Sets," but it may have been to distinguish them from a "House party" that were more family oriented - tios, tias, cousins, abuela, mom and pop, etc. Sets were also "Thrown" (yet another term) in apartments that house parties were given with the distinction, or a virtual absence of aforementioned family members.

If someone helps me, I still have some invitations to sets and Social Club "Dances" that I can share by uploading some of them to this board.

[Richie_Rumbero]

Hey Jibaro,

If Jose can turn on the HTML Code on this message board you can share with us all the photos by using this HTML Code...

<br><span class="sig"></span><img src="[web address where photo is scanned]"><br>

or simply go to one of the many web-photo albums on the internet, upload your pics there and give us the link to the address where we could see them.....

Thanks.

Richie

[Jibaro]

Richie, I was hoping and continue to do so and wishing, not to mention encoraging Jose to make html codes available HERE, so as to not to go elsewhere for what can be handled here - Latino style. The EHO board has a good premise and great potential, so I remain optimistic that Jose will continue improving this board.

P. S.

Jose, let me know if there is ANYTHING I can do to help you out.

[Jose]

Richie, Jibaro,
I am not sure what it is you wish to do. My guess is that you wish pictures to show up as a message thread opens up.
I will try it now:
http://www.east-harlem.com/images/gwf_trex.jpg

It didn't work. I will work on this as I believe it should allow you to show the message. I may be doing something wrong. But as above, you can put the url and it will create a link to the picture. Is that what you wish to do?

[Diana]

Hey Jose,

I'm only 2 yrs. older than you...but you write that all we had was 70"s disco...Jose, where have you been, my friend?

We had more than that...60's motown and latin music, as well as rock, and of course, the 70's disco and for those that like Doo Wop (like I do, we also had those classics).

House parties were exactly that PARTIES...family and friends. Now SETS were something else. I wasn't old enough to go to one of these, however, I did get a taste of it. My teenage babysitter threw one and she invited me - just to show off the latest dances she had taught me...and then I was banished from the party. I did notice that there were red and green lights. stuff to snack on and great music. She did tell me what went on at these SETS. Lot's of dancing especially SLOW dancing (like the grind, the elevator, etc.) these dances usually took place up against some wall. And of course there was ALWAYS a chaperone.

I never made it to one of these SETS just like I never made it to the Palladium....but they sure sounded like great times...but, I have the music.

[Jose]

Diana,
I have to confess, I didn't go out too much in the 70s. I wasn't a party kid. Didn't see the point in dancing, like what does it accomplish? Now I dance to please my wife, but still don't get why people like it. I don't get anything out of it. Would much rather play the drums, hey, but that's just me, a little nerdy.

But you are right about Motown, etc. My sisters listened to Motown Music Exclusively and my parents to Latin. I stuck to Rock - The Beatles, Rolling Stones, etc. I never saw Tito Puente play regular Drums like Ringo, so I didn't go there. Again, its just me. I do enjoy Salsa now, especially the horn sections.

I just hope Salseros use regular drums in the future.

[Diana]

Jose,

I just had to answer this one. You say you don't see the point to dancing. What do you get out of playing drums? It's probably the same "thing" dancers get out of dancing. It's good for the soul, for the spirit, makes one happy.

Tito Puente did not play drums but he played timbales, vibes, piano, etc.

Latin music (or Salsa) has instruments that are essential to its groove. Percussion instruments; congas, bongo, campana, timbales, give it the rhythm. Makes it swing. It's not an easy feat for these percussionists to keep time and the flow not only for the rest of the musicians but for the dancers also.

Drums have been infused into Latin but there is usually a conga around somewhere. Cuban music has done it. Irakere (more jazzy) Los Van Van but you always have the percussion.

In my opinion a guaguanco, chacha or rumba to trap drums...would NEVER sound the same or give it the same groove, flow or feel.

I liked the Beatles, but Jose...Ringo Starr?

so, I ask you again...What do YOU get out of playing drums????


Interested in seeing your reply.

[Diana]

Charles,

Finally had a chance to reply. You brought back many memories. I too listened to Dick Ricardo Sugar, Symphony Sid and later Joe Gaines. I also had a small transitor radio that was practically attached to my ear.

Funny, I knew all the names of the clubs and who was playing where, but couldn't go to many of them. I did go to Hipocampo, Corso, Casa Blanca, the Red Parrot and a couple of others that I've forgotten. With my parents I went to Brodway Casino, Riverside Plaza, Caborojeno, Happy Hills Casino. That was when St. Cecilia's would throw their dances at these clubs. Boy, were they great. The Brothers and priests would take off their white collars and let loose.

In the late 70's early 80's I frequented Ochentas, Christopher's (on 106th St. now called the Old Timers Lounge) My Desire (on 124th and 3rd).

Anyway, Charles...glad to hear that you like the same music. I'm constantly replacing my albums with CD's...cause I loved that music then and still do now.

By the way, this is for all members....on Sat. August 11th there's an outdoor concert at Columbia University at the Quad featuring the music of the Palladium Big Three (Puente, Machito, Rodriguez). It's from 4pm to 9 pm and its FREE.

Also, on Aug. 25th Lincoln Center Outdoors is having a day of wonderful music and at 8pm there will be a tribute to Tito Puent.

For me the above two are a MUST!!!!!

Hasta Luego.

[Charles]

Hey, Diana!!!!!:

I can’t BELIEVE how good we had it "back in da day" musically! It was at the Harlem Cultural Festival during the Summer of 1968 I first got to see Latin Music—Salsa—played live!

A local actor and Harlem entertainer, Tony Lawrence (along with various NYC jocks like Eddie O’Jay and Symphony Sid), would MC each show. The live outdoor concert would take place on Sundays between 1 and 5 PM; and then an edited one-hour tape of the show would be shown on Channel 5 (then WNEW-TV) the following Saturday night.

As I posted on another internet music group I’m a part of, I convinced my older sister to take me to see the Latin Music installment one Sunday. Man, we had a great time—well, at least I did anyway. My sister, who was five years older than me, was really astonished at how much, at age 13, I loved Latin Music and how I knew EVERY tune that was played. (She was more Beatles, Lovin’ Spoonful, and Rascals; I was "very WWRL and Latin Music.")

The lineup at the Festival that Sunday was (in order of appearance) Ray Barretto, Eddie Palmieri, and "El Rey," Tito Puente. Each act played a total of about 30-40 minutes, and all three "orquestas" tore it up!!!! Barretto played (from the "Hard Hands" album) "Abidjan," "Mirame De Frente" (which he opened with), "Hard Hands," and going back one album to "Acid," he played the title tune and "Soul Drummers." In Ray’s band on timbales was the great Orestes Vilato, who was (and still is) an exciting showman. His solo on "Abidjan" had EVERYBODY going NUTS!!!!!

Next up was Eddie Palmieri, with Ismael Quintana on lead vocals. Now, "mental fuzziness" with the passage of time does not allow me to recall everything Eddie played, but I remember him opening with "Busco Lo Tuyo" (featuring blistering solos by Eddie on piano and the late, great Barry Rogers on trombone) from his then-current album, "Champagne." Eddie and the band also played "The African Twist," Ay Que Rico," "Palo De Mango," and "Cinturita" (all from "Champagne"), and "Tirandote Flores" (from "Echando Palante/Straight Ahead").

After the stage was cleared, an older Caucasian man with a sailor’s hat came to the mike. I had no idea who it was—until I heard the voice. It was the voice of the cat who would be in my earplug late at night on weeknights—long after my dad had issued his nightly "Go To Bed" edict at eleven o’clock—the late, great Sidney Torin—"Symphony Sid"! He introduces "El Rey," Tito Puente, and at this point I’m thinking—at age 13—it doesn’t get any better than this—LOL!!!!!

Puente starts kickin’ right away with his great "Mambo a la Tito." Then he goes through a slew of numbers from his then-current album, "The King Tito Puente:" "Fiesta Con Puente," "Guaguanco Margarito," "T.P.’s Shing-A-Ling," and "It Was Love." He reaches back to the earlier "20th Anniversary" album (the same album that "Mambo…" was on) for his boogaloo crowd-pleaser, "Fat Mama." Santos Colon handled lead vocals for most of the numbers.

It was because of that day, after seeing Vilato and Puente, that I started playing the timbales (One of my greatest regrets, though, is that I never got the chance to play that instrument in a Salsa band context.)

Charles

[Diana]

Charles,

Thanks so much for sharing your journey into our wonderful music. It brought back many memories. What a line-up? I too was a WWRL listener and also listened to WMCA (good guys).

You can't beat the music of that time (AND I DON'T CARE WHAT ANYONE SAYs!!!) I saw many a concert in Central Park also....Palmieri, Ismael Rivera. CLASSIC !!!!

Do you remember Joe Quijano,? He played many a block party in El Barrio.

God, I long for those days...the music, the concerts...Okay, I'm getting sentimental...and feeling OLD.


Until next time...

Take Care and keep on keeping on!!! QUE VIVA LA MUSICA.

[Charles]

(You wrote: Thanks so much for sharing your journey into our wonderful music. It brought back many memories. What a line-up? I too was a WWRL listener and also listened to WMCA [good guys].)

Diana!:

You and I must've lived in "parallel universes"--LOL!!! You mentioned another great memory of the 60s, WMCA!!!!

The "Good Guys" (bet you don't rmember!): Joe O'Brien, "Dandy" Dan Daniel, Jack Spector, B. Mitchell Reid, Harry Harrison, Gary Stevens, Ed Baer, Dean Anthony, and a few others!

(You wrote: You can't beat the music of that time [AND I DON'T CARE WHAT ANYONE SAYs!!!] I saw many a concert in Central Park also....Palmieri, Ismael Rivera. CLASSIC !!!!)

Diana--no question about it!!! Over those years, I saw some great Central Park concerts: Ray Barretto, Willie Bobo, Mongo Santamaria; Curtis Mayfield, Nancy Wilson, and Mandrill; Barretto (again) and Willie Colon--so many shows that I can't fully remember!

(You wrote: Do you remember Joe Quijano,? He played many a block party in El Barrio.)

I remember the name but precious little about his music. Didn't he have a hit around '67-'68 called "Nosotros?" If I remember correctly, Quijano played bongos. Help me out with some other Quijano titles!!!

(You wrote: God, I long for those days...the music, the concerts...Okay, I'm getting sentimental...and feeling OLD. Until next time...Take Care and keep on keeping on!!! QUE VIVA LA MUSICA.)

You're not the only one longing for those days! For instance, it was the era when soneros SANG!!! I REALLY can't stand the emphasis in today's Salsa on the lead singer. Band doesn't get enough of a chance to "get off!" Back in our day, you mentioned the band and the singer in the same breath--one "needed" the other. For instance--

Ray Barretto/Adalberto Santiago
Ricardo Ray/Bobby Cruz
Orquesta (Larry) Harlow/Ismael Miranda
Rafael Cortijo/Ismael Rivera
Eddie Palmieri/Ismael Quintana
Johnny Pacheco/Pete "El Conde" Rodriguez (y Celia, too!)
Tito Puente/Santos Colon (and don't forget La Lupe!)
Joe Cuba/Jimmy Sabater (also Willie Torres, Cheo)
and--my favorite pairing of 60s/early 70s Salsa--

WILLIE COLON/HECTOR LAVOE!!!!!!

Now, THAT was music!!!!

Charles

[Diana]

What could people possibly say?? We love OUR MUSIC.


The "Good Guys" (bet you don't rmember!): Joe O'Brien, "Dandy" Dan Daniel, Jack Spector, B. Mitchell Reid, Harry Harrison, Gary Stevens, Ed Baer, Dean Anthony, and a few others!

You bet I remember !!!! Do you remember Murray the K and Jocko? Going back a little here.

You listed all my favorite bands with their singers. Those were the days when you recognized a band by its style and singer. Today I can't tell whose who. I call it formula music.


Diana

[Charles]

Hey, here's a "heads up":

I just heard from a friend who is a sound engineer working the Harlem Week Festival on 135th St in (where else?) Harlem.

According to his information, Joe Cuba will be closing out the Festival tonight at the St. Nicholas Ave. end beginning at 7:30!!! Playing with Joe will be Yomo Toro and "Chocolate" (Alfredo Amanteros). Joe's due to play an hour, and from what I heard, he was cookin' last night too!!! He's still got it!!!!!

Now, I don't know if y'all "venture out of East Harlem and come 'uptown' to MY old neighborhood" (smile--I used to live on 135th), but it promises to be good!

Charles

[GaryChandler]

Hi all,

I'm a reporter from Columbia News Service (at Columbia University) and am doing stories in/about East Harlem. The forum has been a nice way for me to hear about some of the goings-on.

I'd love to learn more about TNT and Johnny Colon and others that have been mentioned here--sounds like a great story, and maybe one people outside of the community haven't heard much about, especially the younger folks. Johnny Colon is still around, right? Are any other musicians from before? What happened to them? Does East Harlem have a tradition of neighborhood bands? Is the idea of neighborhood bands still strong?

I'm a radio reporter, so anything that involves music makes my job easier! Thanks.

(P.S. Feel free to let me know about other things going on too--I'm open to just about everything.)

[marthadel]

Glad to come back to this web site. Been gone away. I was reading the music replys on Tony Rojas and the TNT Band. I was glad to see someone did remember him. When I left NYC to live in Florida about 1974, I came back to East Harlem and saw Tony. He had finally settled down and if I remember well was living in East Harlem about 110th Street. I date Tony for about a year when he was playing the neighborhood clubs. Tony loved music and was talented. Does anyone know if he is playing again or really did settle down with a family?

Martha Del Valle
mvalle621@aol.com

[marthadel]

Glad to come back to this web site. Been gone awhile. I was reading the music replys on Tony Rojas and the TNT Band. I was glad to see someone did remember him. When I left NYC to live in Florida about 1974, I came back to East Harlem and saw Tony. He had finally settled down and if I remember well was living in East Harlem about 110th Street. I date Tony for about a year when he was playing the neighborhood clubs. Tony loved music and was talented. Does anyone know if he is playing again or really did settle down with a family?

Martha Del Valle
mvalle621@aol.com

[Ana]

I just became a member to this site and ran across Richie Rumbero's gracious information/posting of the June 2001 Puerto Rican Village event at Riverside Church. Thank you, Richie! I am not sure if Richie knew this, but that event was put together (solely) by Mr. Jose Obando and Ms. Ana Flores, formerly of the Salsa Museum. It was successful, even through the inclement weather that day. We went on to pursue our goals, and now Mr. Jose Obando is the Salsa Consultant for the Metropolitan Museum's Instrumental Department. Presently, we are working on a CUATRO project, called "Cuatrisimo" for June 1, 2002, featuring six of the best Cuatro players. Of course, Yomo Toro accepted our request to perform for the Museum. Please visit our site at: www.intlsalsamuseum.homestead.com for information on Lubona Corporation/International Salsa Sight.

[Ana]

Correction! The date for the "Cuatrisimo" event at the Metropolitan Museum is June 1, 2003.

[marthadel]

Yes, I remember those radio stations when I was growing up. Murray the K and his swinging swaray! He always had the Ronnets on his show. And WMCA Good Guys. They were giving away sweat shirts with a big yellow smiling face on the front. All you had to do was sent them a post card with your address. Wish I would have saved that sweat shirt. And as for Richie Ray and Bobby Cruz. I live in Florida and they are here. They have been pastoring a church here for many years. They have a big ministry in Hialeah, FL.

[Jibaro]

Paying his dues - before he became WBLS' "Chief Rocker" Program Director Frankie Crocker held his own, albeit "The fifth Beatle" was the main man on that station.






Ah Bey !

[Diana]

Jibaro,

Thanks for the picture - brought back many good memories of when I still lived on 111th St. looking out from my window and listening to Murray the K.

As for Frankie - he was the "Rocker" - "Frankie, don't go please stay".... remember that one and do you remember his theme song.... "There I go, There I go, There I go...pretty baby....
I believe it was called Moody's Blues.


Diana

[calpp]

Hello Diana and Charles I just joined the chat room on site and was literally blown away by your discussion on the great musicians and bands that existed during our day. I too was a musician during this period and played with a band called La Preferida. We rehearsed at the old warehouse site on 103st. between Park avenie and Lexington. I too listened to Dick Ricardo Sugar as well as the late great Symphony Sid and later on Joe Gaines. I found a web site titled La Musica.com which contained a three hour show headed by Joe Gaines. It is titled the Joe Gaines Express #45. It features the likes of Willie Colon, Eddie palmieri, Tito, Roberto Roena and the Apollo sound, The New Swing sextette, Johnny Colon, Joe Cuba, Joe Quijano to mention a few. I remember playing along side Mongo Santamaria at the amphitheater on 102st btwn Madison and Park Ave. I remember seeing Cal Tjader, Willi Bobo and Joe Quijano on the same stage. I also played along Mr. Gypsy Woman, Joe Batann. There is so much to write and not enough time to sit here and do it. I left N.Y.C. in 1971 for the military, traveled and settled down in Sacramento, Ca. in 1978. i still visit N.Y.C. at least 2 to 3 times a year if not more. Live 365 is also a websitte that features our music. Please keep in touch.

[vm2110]

I've been playing at the harbor conservatory for over 2 years now, after doing gigs in east harlem before that w/ my brasilian group. i've switched over now, completely absorbed w/ latin music, my awesome underaged associates, & my teachers. My Question:

what was going on in the 70s when johnny colon's school *and* the Harbor were both formed? were these the first attempts to institutionalize latin music? why did it take me two years at the harbor before i knew about the east harlem school, & to find out that most of my teachers were there before they came to the harbor?

was there any rivalry? is this a sensative question?

there is a new influx of teachers--very good, all of them--but more recent immigrants. they didn't come up in harlem listening to james brown or latin soul, etc. there are certainly a lot of kids there, and they're out there playing 4 or 5 nights a week before they hit 17, some of them. between the newer teachers, the administration, and the legends who have been educating in the barrio for 30 years or more-- there isn't a complete agreement on what the fundamentals of latin music are. but the kids are coming, and they have minds of their own, and *something* is happening.

SO, back to my q: what happened in the 70s in the neighborhood that created the right ambience for these two schools? why did it happen THEN?

and--what has changed in terms of venues? what keeps the music in the neighborhood? 'salsa', as im beginning to learn about it on a more academic level, has reached nearly all ends of the earth. but here it always feels local. you can catch the legends, johnny at La Fonda and people like chocolate who drop in whenever... karen from la perfecta god bless.

are there fewer venues for young players to learn by rote? my teachers are always pulling me up on stage-- but i don't know the barrio of 30, 40 years ago.

anybody who wants to talk and share--thanks. sounds like many of you know the sidewalks like the back of your hand.

Victoria

[Ana]

Growing up in Spanish Harlem in the '60's and '70's, I can honestly say that I do not remember Boy's Harbor or any school that, at that time, paralleled Johnny Colon's school of music. I remember Johnny Colon's school of music and vividly remember Sonny Bravo teaching me the piano.

Salsa dura's brink of fame started, IMO, in the '60's. I'm pretty sure that Johnny, being a barrio boy (and still is) saw that there were, and to this day, are no prominent schools (i.e., Julliard) with the exception of Boy's Harbor and the classes that Bobby Sanabria teach at New School of music -- that taught conga, bongo, timbales, Afro-Caribbean instruments, the Puerto Rican, Dominican, and Cuban folkloric musics. The musicians and artists that are now teaching at the Harbor were students of the Johnny Colon School of Music, i.e., Jimmy Delgado, Sonny Bravo, Gilberto "Pulpo" Colon, Jr., Harry Adorno, Johnny Almendra, etc.

Most of the musicians of my era (as young as 12) were already experimenting with bands of their own before they joined Colon's school of music, playing (by ear, which most still do...lots of the artists back then, and still today, do not read music, but are natural talents, and/or have studied music late in their careers) and did so because THEIR parents were musicians (either from Puerto Rico, which made up and still do, most of the artists today). They grew up listening to folkloric Afro-Caribbean, Jibaro music as well as, Soul, Jazz, Rock 'n Roll, Calypso, Reggae, top 40's (cousin Brucie), and our beloved Symphony Sid. Statistically, Puerto Ricans were the ones who spent their money at these venues (Palladium, Caborojeno, etc.) and who were the ones who mostly bought the music.

When the U.S. cut ties with Cuba, the market in Latino music was not coming in anymore for my father's generation. In comes MY generation and we take the jibaro music, Cuban Afro music and mix it with our neighbor's (Harlem) music creating Boogalu, Salsoul, Salsa, Latin-Jazz, Shingaling, etc..which is basically what Salsa is comprised of. Salsa was amalgated by the Puerto Ricans and NuYoricans in Spanish Harlem...this makes it an American musical genre.

In the '60's and '70's, there were at least 35 clubs in NYC alone (not counting the "after-hours") and that gave musicians the opportunity to enjoy gigging (back then, for most musicians, gigging was more important that the pay!) almost every night of the week! By the '80's, Salsa "dura", as well as Salsa venues, was waning significantly and replaced by Salsa "monga".

Everything, including Salsa, evolves and unfortunately, at times, not for the better.

Please visit www.salsasight.com

[Richie_Rumbero]

Hi Victoria!

I'll have to respond to your questions spearately as it won't allow me to do so in one single post....

What was going on in the 70s when johnny colon's school *and* the Harbor were both formed? Were these the first attempts to institutionalize latin music?

The various musical elements that encompass what is referred to as "Latin Music" have been institutionalized in the past in countries such as Cuba, Puerto Rico, Mexico, Brazil, etc. The USA, however, has been another matter. Prior to Johnny Colón's East Harlem Music School and Boys & Girls Harbor Music Conservatory, there were classes being offered that were strictly revolved around percussion within certain Community Centers and Youth Centers. One example was an African-American percussionist who went by the name of Montego Joe, who developed a drumming class at a place called the Harlem Youth Center. So pleased with his students was Joe, that he brought them into the recording studio and recorded an entire LP. The ensemble was baptized as the HAR-YOU PERCUSSION GROUP (With the HAR-YOU being short for "Harlem Youth"). You also had individuals independently teaching the rudiments of afro-cuban percussion. Folks like Humberto Morales, Ubaldo Nieto, Frankie Malabe, amongst many others, would provide instruction that wasn't being provided in prominent musical conservatories or university music programs. This independent instruction also included the areas of Guitar, Brass, Woodwind and Piano. In fact, the very first instructor of Latin-oriented music in New York City was a Puertorican woman, who also went by the name of Victoria (Hernandez), whom taught her students how to play the piano. Among her first students were two pre-teens named Ernest Anthony "Tito" Puente and Joe "Loco" Estevez. There were also books that specifically dealt with instruction in latin percussion. One of the foremost was one authored by Henry Adler, whose students were among the many who would emerge within the latin music pantheon such as Manny Oquendo and Mike Collazo Sr.

Johnny Colón created the first educational and instructional institution (or at least that I'm aware of) in the United States that was squarely revolved around Latin Music. Not just "Salsa," but the music from Brazil, Puerto Rico, Colombia, etc. And the instructors were the very same musicians who were in the trenches within the Latin Music New York scene at the time. I'm not sure if this was Johnny's original intent, but aside from creating an educational platform for the music, he also managed to provide a secondary income stream for working musicians as teachers.

It's important to note that the Boys Harbor facility in East Harlem and the Music department headed by Ramon Rodriguez were two separate entities at one point. Ramon Rodriguez was leader of an ensemble known as Orquesta Yambu. He then abandoned the latin music playing circuit and devoted himself to music education. He developed a similiar curriculum as Johnny Colón in the late 1970s, and also included working musicians in the "Salsa" scene to provide instruction to prospective students. Although his particular "school" was located, at the time, on the Lower East Side. In the 1980s, he relocated his school and moved it into the building it currently is found in on 104th & 5th Avenue and integrated his program into the Boys Harbor Not-For-Profit Performing Arts School. So the Ramon Rodriguez Music School is now officially known as The Boys & Girls Harbor Music Conservatory. Which is one wing or department of the much larger Boys & Girls Harbor School of the Performing Arts, which includes instruction and development in both Theater and Dance.

Continued...

[Richie_Rumbero]

Why did it take me two years at the harbor before i knew about the east harlem school, & to find out that most of my teachers were there before they came to the harbor?

This is just my own personal opinion based on observation. Ramon Rodriguez, in particular, seems very reluctant to recognize anyone or any other entity that mirrors the work he's doing. Which is why you and others probably may not be aware of the Multicultural Music Group which is another non-profit institution dedicated to instruct and preserve the culture of latin music and also includes many of the instructors who went through Johnny Colón, Boys Harbor and some of the emerging latin-american musicians on the scene. Although, to be fair, this reluctance is not exclusive to Boys Harbor. Very few musical institutions would or will ever sing the praises of other similiar musical institutions. You won't find Julliard ever promoting the Manhattan School of Music or the latter talking about the New School or they praising the efforts of the Mannes School in harlem. Unless of course a musician/instructor happens to be associated with more than one and they are self-promoting on their own...

Was there any rivalry? is this a sensative question?

I'm sure there was. Though it may have been kept in the dark as far as the public was concerned. Two organizations dedicated to the preservation and dissemination of Latin Music, it's culture and history and only a mere few blocks within walking distance of each other, is bound to create some form of rivalry or perhaps even a slight animosity. Both were funded in part by the government and, obviously, both are attempting to accrue even more funding by the state or federal government in order to support their work. With the limited amount of funding provided by our government towards the arts, but especially towards those revolving around a Latin-american culture, one of the two would've lost out on some much needed $$$ due to one being awarded the financial support in favor of the other.

Could or should have both entities combined? Perhaps. But that would mean someone would have to submit some "power" and lose complete and total administrative control. And some people would rather have crumbs, rather than a loaf of bread, if it meant those crumbs would be theirs and solely theirs to do with as they choose...

There is a new influx of teachers--very good, all of them--but more recent immigrants. They didn't come up in harlem listening to james brown or latin soul, etc. There are certainly a lot of kids there, and they're out there playing 4 or 5 nights a week before they hit 17, some of them. Between the newer teachers, the administration, and the legends who have been educating in the barrio for 30 years or more-- there isn't a complete agreement on what the fundamentals of latin music are. But the kids are coming, and they have minds of their own, and *something* is happening.

The ethnic makeup of the instructors has definitely changed. Which of course will directly affect their musical slant of what they happen to be instructing in. What was once a predominantly Urban New York latino or Nuyorican faculty is now a combination of recently arrived musicians hailing from Colombia, Cuba, and other parts of South America. All of whom excel in specific areas and are experienced within specific formats that may be alien to the traditional New York Salsa Orchestra. The great thing about such diversity is that a student has options to pick and choose from...

SO, back to my q: what happened in the 70s in the neighborhood that created the right ambience for these two schools? why did it happen THEN?

I would say one of the reasons was that it was during a time when the musical preferences of the youth were geared towards the musical elements found within "Salsa" and it had reached a level of popularity not seen before that it was only a matter of time before aficionados of the music would want to become involved in contributing to the music. I tend to speculate that the fact that there had been years of independent instruction taking place prior to Johnny Colón opening the doors to his music school, must have been some form of inspiration to him. Allowing him to realize the potential that there was a demand for such instruction and with a legitimate and state recognized music school at his disposal, he could round up all of these musicians who were independently teaching on their own and provide them the space, resources, and other benefits, befitting of an educator. And couple that by bringing the music to a standard. It woul no longer be "Street" music, but music that had to be learned at an institutional level and be just as respected as any other form of institutionally trained music...

And--what has changed in terms of venues? what keeps the music in the neighborhood? 'salsa', as im beginning to learn about it on a more academic level, has reached nearly all ends of the earth. but here it always feels local. you can catch the legends, johnny at La Fonda and people like chocolate who drop in whenever... karen from la perfecta god bless.

"Salsa" is as much a part of the New York Latino culture as anything else,. "Salsa" has no specific ethnic identity, despite the roots of the music and it's musical content. South, Central, North Americans, Europeans, Asians, all embrace this music. You yourself jsut mentioned three musical figures from different cultural backgrounds Johnny (Nuyorican), Chocolate (Afro-Cuban), Karen (African-American). Yet, all are linked to each other by way of the music. It stays in the neighborhood as long as the people within those neighborhoods remain a part of it. They are simply celebrating the culture that they lived or was passed down to them from previous generations.

Are there fewer venues for young players to learn by rote? my teachers are always pulling me up on stage-- but i don't know the barrio of 30, 40 years ago.

I would say so. There are way fewer venues then there were at one point. Aside from a lack of venues, there are also new obstacles that make it impossible to be able to interpret this style of music. The draconian cabaret laws that have been enforced within the last few years under the Guiliani Administration and has carried over with the Bloomberg regime. But their actions are also reflective of a public demand. Our music tends to be regarded by the most of the general public as noise pollution. There are few bars, lounges, restaurants or performance spaces that allow for latin percussion because they deem it as entirely too loud. You also have a situation where the places that are available to interpret such music, there is very little to no compensation whatsoever. Very few of the more polished musicians want to find themselves in such a situation. Less and less of the youth want to take the plunge and develop a jam session and play in front of a potential audience. They prefer to hone their craft in school and wait until they are called upon by an established veteran to perform, rather than do any "shedding" on their own.

Hope some of this info helps...

Richie

[vm2110]

Richie,

I'd like to thank you for all the time you put into your response, and for your expertise. It was extremely helpful.
I'm wondering what your response --and everyone else's-- is to some of the films aired recently on Channel 13's Cantos Latinos?
The Boys Harbor film (Mi MAmbo) hasn't aired yet, but i expect it to have mixed reviews (particularly among the kids i know who were in it!)
I was particulary bowled over by "From Mambo to Hip-Hop: A south Bronx tale.
Did anyone else see that? What was going on between the south bronx and east harlem in that time? i know the musicans travelled all over the place--but what about the music was specifially tied to one neighborhood or another.

And I'm desperately looking for the song "Se le Quema la Casa", about the fires in the south bronx. i don't know who sang it or wrote it.

thanks again,
Victoria

[Richie_Rumbero]

Richie,

I'd like to thank you for all the time you put into your response, and for your expertise. It was extremely helpful. I'm wondering what your response --and everyone else's-- is to some of the films aired recently on Channel 13's Cantos Latinos? The Boys Harbor film (Mi MAmbo) hasn't aired yet, but i expect it to have mixed reviews (particularly among the kids i know who were in it!)

Hi Victoria,

I had every intention of seeing MI MAMBO on PBS, but unfortuantely, I missed it. I completely forgot about it. What did you think of it?

I was particulary bowled over by "From Mambo to Hip-Hop: A south Bronx tale. Did anyone else see that? What was going on between the south bronx and east harlem in that time? I know the musicans travelled all over the place--but what about the music was specifially tied to one neighborhood or another.

I saw this and enjoyed it as well. There's a lot that wasn't covered, but with only one whole hour, they did manage to fit in alot of the important historical aspects.

What was going on between the South Bronx & East Harlem was the 6 train. :D

In the 1920s through the early 40s, East Harlem was THE community conclave for Puertoricans. Everything was going on there that was musically, socially, politically and culturally relevant to the stateside Boricua. Prior to East Harlem, Brooklyn was a stomping ground for newly arrived Puertoricans. As time passed, families residing in Brooklyn and East Harlem began to relocate more and more into the area of the South Bronx. Which, as you saw from the Documentary, was not always the bombed out war zone that it eventually became in the 60s & 70s. As Bobby Sanabria pointed out in the Documentary, Robert Moses' vision of creating the Cross Bronx Expressway ended up carving up beautiful Bronx neighborhoods in half and killing its vibrant communes altogether.

What tied the music specifically to one neighborhood were the musicians themselves. In those days, Latin musicians weren't necessarily touring the world as many are doing today. Most never even left the city until years later. The majority of these orchestras sprang up locally and they honed their craft by playing local venues. So it's no coincidence that when you have Machito, Rafael Hernandez, Noro Morales, Los Happy Boys, Antonio Marcano, Alberto Socarras, Augusto Coen, Miguel Matamoros, Davilita, Panchito Riset, etc. living simultaneously in the same neighborhood, you're going to have a multi-cultural musical mix between Cuba and Puerto Rico, on top of everything else that's going on (Jazz/Swing, Tango, Pop, Merengue, Samba, Boleros, etc.).
As more and more Puertoricans relocate to the Bronx, what you have is a new generation of musicians who emerge and are predominantly influenced by Afro-Cuban oriented music. Mambo, Son, Guaracha, Rumba, and especially Charanga. Men like Tito Puente, Tito Rodriguez, Charlie Palmieri, Manny Oquendo, Joe Quijano, Orlando Marin, Johnny Pacheco, Eddie Palmieri, Ray Barretto, etc.

After the height of the Mambo craze, all of what later becomes popular dance trends in New York City: The Cha-Cha-Cha, The Pachanga, The Latin Hustle and B-Boy/Breakdancing, all have their genesis in the Bronx, interpreted by Bronx residents of Puertorican descent, and manages to travel beyond NY and influence other cities and even countries....

And I'm desperately looking for the song "Se le Quema la Casa", about the fires in the south bronx. i don't know who sang it or wrote it.

SE TE QUEMO LA CASA was a huge hit for Orlando Marin. You can purchase a copy at CASA LATINA located at E. 116th Street between Lexington & 3rd Avenue...

Richie

[vm2110]

Richie,

Thanks again for responding. I did know that the Barrio was an important P.R. community since the late 1800s, and after citizainship was granted, became the neighborhood of choice for P.R. immigrants. I didn't know that it was later on that peolple started moving to the South Bronx.

The images in the film (A south bronx tale) really changed my perspective on the music of that time, as if i can't listen to it in the same way anymore.
I know that salsa has become an international phenomenon (orquesta la luz, Salsa in Cali, etc)--but it really made me think of how, after debates of "authenticity" have already gone cold, music is still very tied to a place and to personal experiences in a place.

what did i think of 'mi mambo'? i'm proud of those kids, many of whom i know well. i wish they had featured more of them. I noticed that cultural differences were very played down (puerto rican, dominican) and a kind of general pan-latino identity emerged from it all. i'm not sure if this is due to the political position of being a non-for-profit, or what, but it struck me since many kids i know there are very involved in either bomba y plena groups, palo groups, or are starting their own old-time merengue bands outside the harbor.

I also noticed no mention of the johnny colon school, probably for reasons you already discussed. Despite this, i have a good deal of respect for Ramon and the work he does.

When Willie Colon talked about salsa lyrics becoming more political (in 'A bronx tale), he mentioned the song 'se te quemó la casa'. he recorded it on 'there goes the neighborhood'--i didn't know that it was an Orlando Marín original. Johnny A. told me that the album title really wasn't about the S. Bronx fires, so maybe i was jumping to assume this.

Thanks again,
Victoria